Episode Transcript
Speaker 1 00:00:04 Hi everyone. I'm Dr. Diane Hamilton. Welcome to Leaders Playbook, a show about how to drive transformational impact in your organization. We talked with innovative leaders across multiple industries to hear about the best tools, resources, practices, and strategies to help you reach the top of your game. I can't wait to share our leaders' insights with you.
Speaker 1 00:00:35 Hello everyone. I am your host, Dr. Diane Hamilton, and I am the C of tanera. I also serve on the board of advisors for the Global Mentor Network. Thank you so much for joining us. Our guest today is Olivia Freud, who is head of HR and Senior Vice President HR at Verion, where she has responsibility for all strategic and operational human resource activities to support the overall strategic cultural and organizational development at Verion. They have developed, built and delivered innovative cancer care technologies. So join me today as we hear from Olivia regarding her insights regarding cultural perception in hr. It's so nice to have you here, Olivia.
Speaker 2 00:01:16 Thank you so much, Diane.
Speaker 1 00:01:18 Well, I was looking forward to this, and I know you and I have chatted previously and I how you've looked into some of where you've done some of your work in the past and where you've lived, and you have quite an interesting background, and I think a lot of people would like to hear just how you reached this level of success. Can you give us your backstory?
Speaker 2 00:01:38 No, thank you, Diane. I actually grew up in a very, very small little village somewhere in Germany. And for me it was crystal clear that I will become a professional musician. So the corporate world was completely outside of my imagination of something that I could be working in. So I was laying harp and you know, for me it was clear I wanna be part, you know, of a big orchestra and this was the path that I was on. And at one point, you know, when I realized the very, very few seeds that I could go for and potentially I wouldn't make it, and what was then the alternative to be teaching, which wasn't really what I wanted to do, I started thinking about, okay, is that really what I, what I wanted? You know, what else could be there? So I started studying something, you know, related to business administration because I thought it would give me a great foundation.
Speaker 2 00:02:29 And then I had the opportunity to work in the corporate world, and this is where it all started. I felt like, oh, that's nice. I wanna have more of that. You know, I could see the opportunities to work with so many different cultures working internationally. So very early in my career, I, you know, started studying abroad. I went to Indonesia. Then very shortly after starting my professional life, I lived in China. And then, you know, started moving from a more project management role into hr. And since then you, you know, I think I lived, sorry. I worked in more or less every different function in hr, which was a super exciting journey. Spent nearly five years of my life in the Middle East, and now I'm here in the us.
Speaker 1 00:03:11 Wow. I don't think I've ever interviewed somebody who played the heart by, I'm envisioning there was a, the Heroes television show. I thought that one person could see music in the <laugh>. And that's what I was envisioning as you said, that we, it's just the talents that people have add so much to what they do. I mean, we know we wouldn't even have balli. I mean, if it wasn't for calligraphy, we wouldn't have fonts that Steve Jobs created. So your background is really fascinating to me. And you've worked in just so many different areas. You've seen HR handles training differently, I'm sure, in Germany than they do in the Middle East, maybe, or in Indonesia. You named so many interesting places. I'm curious what benefits you've found from learning about so many different cultures and what their perceptions were of what they expected at work.
Speaker 2 00:03:58 And I think, you know, the biggest learning that I got from all of that is that there are so many different ways that lead to the same results. Yeah. So I remember the first time when I worked abroad, I felt like, okay, this is the way we have to do this. You know? So I spent a lot of my energy on convincing other people that this is what we have to do. Yeah. And it took me quite a while to understand, well, you know, maybe, you know, the way that they wanna approach this is very valuable to look into and let it just happen and see what, what happens from there. You know? And particularly when I then also went to the Middle East, there were, you know, so many different cultures coming together because, you know, when you was in Qatar and there, you know, you have some Qatari, but you have a lot of other foreigners, so they come from all over the globe. So everybody brings a piece to the table. And you know, this variety of ways to think about approaching a problem has been very inspirational for me. And I think it's something that I still carry with me anywhere I go, you know, whether it's in different countries, but also in different company cultures. Because every, every company also develops different cultures.
Speaker 1 00:05:06 They really do. You know, I just, right before we got on this show, I spoke for International Project Management Day. We were talking a little bit, somebody asked a question of me about, I was talking about perception, and I mentioned my son-in-law grew up in Lebanon and my daughter studied in Italy since my background's more Italian. And just the different ways that they approach the same problem, or their enthusiasm level or their logic level, it, it just, whatever it is, everything between, when you watch 'em as a couple, they're so different in what their backgrounds were, but they all end up getting along in the end and figuring out how to make it work. I mean, were there certain cultures that you found worked better with other cultures? I'm just curious of, or were, were they similar or were they just all completely different?
Speaker 2 00:05:52 Before I come to your question, I love Italy, by the way,
Speaker 1 00:05:55 <laugh>,
Speaker 2 00:05:56 I'm, you know, a love the people. I love. The food is just amazing. So congratulations, you have an amazing background. Oh, who having these food in Italy?
Speaker 1 00:06:05 <laugh>. Thank you.
Speaker 2 00:06:06 Yeah. So, you know, I thought about this a lot and sometimes, and I put myself into the same bucket, right? I thought like, oh, this looks very familiar. Right? So it'll be very similar mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And I think Germany US is a very good example where when you go deep, you know, there's a lot of cultural differences, but on the surface it kind of looks the same. Yeah. You see, you see similar behaviors, you see similar ways of expressing of, of people and how they express themselves. But then when you look deeper into the meaning of, you know, certain behaviors and you know, certain ways of saying things, they're actually very different. And on the other side, you know, there are maybe cultures where I, in the first place, like when I went to Qatar, I thought, oh, there's gonna be very different. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, it was quite easy for me to plug into that culture because there are certain things that are easy to understand, you know? So the, the way the culture works was something that was easy for me to understand. You know, it's on the one side, it's, for example, a more hierarchical culture. Yeah. So it's very easy, like, you know, if you're at the top of the house, you're at the top of the house. Nobody questions that. Yeah. Uhhuh, <affirmative>. So it's, it was quite easy to understand certain mechanisms where, you know, there were other complexities in the US culture that I didn't expect that are now interesting to explore.
Speaker 1 00:07:27 It is interesting. I, I remember talking to Roy Mabu about her company. She had started in Afghanistan for women to learn how to, to, to work online. And she had to have it behind the scenes because women could not do that kind of thing, run a company. Her brothers had to be the face of it. But I think times have changed since even then. And in different countries, some of the times it gets worse, sometimes it gets better for, you know. But did you find that the different cultures were open to working together? Or did they have conflicts? I mean, how, what was your biggest issues with all of that?
Speaker 2 00:08:04 It's a wonderful question, Diane. And I think it's both. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I think on the one side, if there is not openness, they would not be able to work together at all. Of course. So they were, I always found openness, but at the same time, also a lot of tension. And you know, when, so I give you this example from Qatar, you know, in my team there were 11 different nationalities that had to work together every day. You know, so we had a constant, there was constant conflict. And conflict is a strong word, you know, maybe sometimes it's just differences and you experience like, oh that's interesting. Right? And this is what I try to get my team into, you know, how can we, instead of saying this is wrong, or you know, this is, this is not how we can do it, how we, can we pause and say, oh, that's interesting. Let's explore more. Tell me more why you wanna do it this way, or why this is important for you.
Speaker 1 00:08:54 Was it it hard to get some of the cultures to ask questions that, or provide solutions because it's just not how they do it there. And how do you go about doing that if they, they don't feel comfortable?
Speaker 2 00:09:06 Yeah, that's, it's a big topic, you know, and I experienced that as a leader. Take the opposite perspective for a second, because for me, this was quite challenging. You know, I came a company, global company, in a global role, you know, I was taught to not be the leader who has all the answers, but who coaches and supports the team, you know, so they can bring up their, you know, their best. And then I, you know, move to a culture where a lot of cultures that live there expect from the leader that they have all the answers. Yeah. So it was interesting. And it was also quite a conflict for me, you know, to on the one side think like, oh, I need to unlearn something that I feel quite strongly about. At the same time, you know, my innocence that no, no, I don't wanna unlearn this because I think this is what leaders should do. But it was a balancing act, you know, because what I have stayed at that position, or this is my understanding of leadership and this is what I want, I would not have been able to connect to the team. Yeah. So sometimes it meant, you know, to go a step back to take the team and step forward.
Speaker 1 00:10:09 I hear a lot of that from younger generations that they, they'd like to, if they're the leader on the team, they'll often tell me, I, I don't wanna be in control. I just want them to be the per, I wanna be the person they come to for questions if they need help. But I don't need that sense of power. Like, I used to hear more in the Mad Men days, you know, I mean, you heard, no, I, I'm gonna be the be all, you know, leader. And it's changed quite a bit. But a, a lot of things have have changed and a lot of things haven't changed. And you, you are a working mother and wife and you have a unique perspective. I will think of the challenges that's involved in leadership because not everybody can do all that. And so I'm curious, which organizations do to help make these challenges easier? What have you seen works and you know, in your mm-hmm. <affirmative> kind, you know, in your kind of situation?
Speaker 2 00:10:58 Yeah, it's a wonderful question. You know, because I've seen so many places where as companies, we sometimes get stuck in old ways of doing things and you know, policies that, that describe a world that was potentially right some years ago. But nowadays, you know, there are so many different, let's say for example, family models that, you know, one policy to do something in my own experience for example, was when I moved countries. Yeah. I was, you know, in situations where I thought like, okay, is this policy set up that there is one working parent and one person is at home? Because if I need to do it this way, I can only do it if one person full-time looks after all of that. Yeah. So that was quite interesting because I wasn't working mom, my husband was also working full-time. So it was sometimes very, very difficult.
Speaker 2 00:11:46 And so one thing I took away, and then one thing that I really tried to push for is that we stopped doing it one way because there's no one way anymore. I mean, you talked about the complexities, you know, when we think about leadership today, it's no longer possible that you know it all. It's no longer possible to control it all. The world is too complex. And so it is on the family side of things, family models, you know, challenges that people need to take care of in their everyday life have grown quite a lot. And it's not a simple one size fits all anymore that makes it work. It's a lot more flexibility and also agility that we need when it comes to how we support our employees. And on the other side also, how much effort do we as leaders put into really understanding what is relevant for this one person?
Speaker 1 00:12:34 They've really changed the way they look at coming into the workplace with children since I've been in as far as I've seen. Cuz I can remember being in a job interview, pregnant, not wanting to say I was pregnant, or I could remember waiting for a job or nine months they told me the job would open in nine months. I just found out I was pregnant. I'm like, I'm not saying anything right. <laugh>, I didn't want to jinx my job. But now I, I've seen it changed quite a bit that companies realize you have to have a life. I remember working for a woman boss who I adored, who had a bunch of kids, I mean she had four a three girls and her husband stayed home with 'em all day. I mean, it was really easy for her to call late night meetings and say, we're gonna do a blitz tonight so everybody has to stay here. But then when she got divorced, she had to take care of the kids. And then she saw it from a whole new perspective. Do you think that most people, I mean who haven't gone through what you've gone through trying to be in an executive level have really empathy or understanding from your perspective of what it's like? I mean, should we do more training for people to be more empathetic, especially leaders who have women who work for them, who have children?
Speaker 2 00:13:44 Absolutely. So I think it's very human to, you know, approach topics from your own frame of reference. So you know, the challenges you face, the way you grew up, the way your career has worked or your life works today is, you know, very easily the frame that you take and you put it onto other situations. So making sure that we help leaders to understand that it's about being curious and really understanding, you know, each and every individual bedroom, to be able to broaden their perspective on what is needed for an organization is, is a skill that is extremely important. And by the way, I do think in the future, leaders will not be successful if they don't learn that very early on in their career.
Speaker 1 00:14:29 Yeah, yeah. Do they do much training, uh, uh, what you've seen around different organizations to improve curiosity? I, I mean, I'm just curious what your experience has been.
Speaker 2 00:14:40 I think it's something that comes more and more. I mean, when, you know, when I read article articles also about school systems for example, and hear more and more voices where people say what we really need to focus on is curiosity. So we don't need to focus on our kids, you know, knowing all the names of the cities. And you know, I, I do remember a situation when my child was still in a school in Germany, was asked to name all the different streets in a city. I thought like, what?
Speaker 1 00:15:08 Why?
Speaker 2 00:15:09 Why, why, why really? Why does he need to learn this? I don't understand it. So I love the fact, you know, that the voices get louder. That what we really need to focus on is curiosity. And it starts with our kids and it starts with how we let them explore things, by the way. Also how much screen time they have, you know, instead of being, you know, playing and you know, exploring the world. So I think it's a trend that is coming. Is it there everywhere? No, for sure not. Yeah. And do we need more? Yes, of course. And you know, curiosity is this one thing that empathy and compassion is the other one for leaders to focus on.
Speaker 1 00:15:46 Yeah. You know, if you have curiosity, you're asking more questions which can build that empathy, which is so important. You mentioned agility later in, at being adaptable and I think those are really important as well. And I think that Covid i's had an impact on how agile or adaptable everybody's had to be. I mean, what are you seeing in terms of how organizations are making, are becoming more aware of these critical values?
Speaker 2 00:16:14 I mean, first of all, I have to smile because I always remember, you know, the moment when I realized what is possible now that, you know, half year before the pandemic hit us, would have never thought this is possible. You know, starting from recruiting people without seeing them, like physically being in the same room with them, even for top level roles. I do remember, you know, we had really some of the top roles in our organizations. We recruited people and we never met them. But also, you know, just the work we were able to deliver, you know, critical decisions that in the past everybody said, oh, we need to be together in one room. We need to have this discussion. Suddenly so much was possible. So I think organizations have seen what's possible and what they're also capable of, but also the trust that they can give to their people of being able to deliver work.
Speaker 2 00:17:08 So I think there was a lot of learning in that for organizations. At the same time, I don't know how you feel Diane am, but the more, you know, since the pandemic, I feel it doesn't, it doesn't stop, right? It's not, oh there is this one challenge, it now ended and now it's kind of back to okay, it's a bit calmer, it's more normal. No, I don't feel that this normal comes back. Yes. With the constant change and the speed of change is so huge that I think the pandemic just helped us to, you know, step maybe from a certain lower level very quickly to a higher level, but a higher level that we anyhow need to deal with that tremendous change out there in the world. It,
Speaker 1 00:17:46 It's true. You know, I, I do teach a lot of courses on change and I noticed such a different amount of involvement from the students now in those same exact courses than before Covid Cause and before it was more theory in their mind, oh yeah, you have to adapt it. You know, <laugh>, it sounded really good to do all that, but now they're like, yeah, I need to know this because we have awareness that we have to have. And I think it led to my interest in researching perception of things. Cuz what used to me be important to us is, you know, different and how everybody sees things is different. I saw perception as a combination of I Q E Q, CQ for culture quotient and CQ for curiosity quotient. And I think organizations are trying to figure out how to improve, let's say the cultural quotient right now is a big one, but how do you do that? What do you see that it needs to be done to improve cultural awareness?
Speaker 2 00:18:45 I think it comes a lot back to what we have been discussing before and it all starts with curiosity and adaptability. That of course mainly also, uh, not mainly that's maybe too strong of a word, but very much also influenced by the curiosity that I bring to the table. For me, the key to all of that is self-awareness. So if we think about training for employees and leaders, you know, how can we give more portion of that to self-awareness? Really getting to know myself, getting to know my triggers, getting to know my beliefs. Yeah. So I understand that potentially when I look at a situation, this is potentially not the reality, but it's my belief about, you know, how the world is, you know, that comes into play when I look at something. So if I were to make this call in company, I would always say invest in self-awareness because this is the starting point.
Speaker 1 00:19:40 Well, you know, I, and this is something we also discussed a little bit ago when I was talking about perception. We we're discussing not only self-awareness, but awareness of others. You know, just the emotional intelligence is basically understanding your own emotions and those and others and acting appropriately, right? And so I think that it's very challenging for people with all the confirmation bias that they have because they think something is a certain way and so they just keep reading or learning and and confirming what they think they that is that way. How much are you dealing with that in the working setting? I mean, we see it of course on social media with fighting and all, you know, all the news and all that kinda stuff. But in the work, are they bringing it to work? And how do you deal with it from an HR perspective?
Speaker 2 00:20:23 Yeah, absolutely. Then it's a, it's a topic that is very present. It's why we invest a lot in training around unconscious bias because then we also learn about different biases. You know, confirmation bias is one status quo. Bias is another one I love. You know, I see that also <laugh> not in organizations. Yeah. So it's a very important topic and it's important to invest in again, but it, it comes back again to awareness, right? So it makes me self-aware, it makes me aware that there are biases. It makes me self-aware about my own biases and then I can also do something to, and then I always, and you know, I never like the term to overcome something because we can overcome them there, there, but I can have systematics that help me to get them out of the way or create more objectivity and more awareness in the moment.
Speaker 1 00:21:15 It's very hard for people to know what they don't know. Obviously they, they think that they're coming at it from everybody else's perspective and sometimes they've only seen it done one way. Do you think that cross trading in different jobs, because sometimes we get so much influence from one leader that has a certain cultural or some kind of bias maybe. Do you think that companies, I know a lot of small companies say they don't, you know, they don't have the money, they don't have certain things, but how helpful can it be to, to do different jobs and be within different parts of the organization?
Speaker 2 00:21:51 It's very, very helpful and I'm, I'm a big advocate for what you just pointed out. Look at the example of hr. You know, you find a lot of people that have lived their whole or have been their whole life in HR and it's good, you know, because they built their muscle and they're really good at that one expertise. And I always say, you know, if early on in your career we can help people to get different perspectives. So I was for example, uh, you know, a lot of my time in project management, so you know, I did strategic projects, but I also did sales projects. So I got a lot of different perspectives on, oh this is the pain that people feel in that role and you know, this is how they approached the problem or this is what's difficult for them. So when I later moved into an HR role, you know, I always came in with these different hats and was able to see, okay, maybe that's something that I wanna do because it's the right thing based on my co my functions perspective.
Speaker 2 00:22:44 But potentially that's creating a lot of pain for somebody on the ground in a sales function. Yeah. Which again, doesn't necessarily mean that I change that this is the right decision, but the way I engage with the stakeholders maybe already in the design of my solution is very different. And the way I help them to maybe also get over a certain pain that I create because it's maybe something I cannot avoid, but at least I'm aware that it's there and they feel okay, she sees me and she's there to help me, or the organization is there to help me.
Speaker 1 00:23:16 I, yeah, I think anytime you can get a different perspective, I, when I was in pharmaceutical sales before we took the job, they had us ride in the field, do a couple field days with three or four different people. You didn't just ride with one person. That was so fascinating to me because if one person I think, oh, I can't do this job, it looks awful because it just takes 'em forever to do this or that. And then I'd see the next person, they were super efficient. I go, oh yeah, well that's how I would wanna do. You know, so you, you would relate to whomever you were watching, the things, you'd take pieces, oh that one did this great and this one did that great. But that can get expensive and to have people do that, so how do you get around the expenses is a problem. Is it feasible? Absolutely.
Speaker 2 00:23:57 You, you made a wonderful example, right? I mean sometimes there are different ways coming back to where we started, right? There are different ways to achieve that. It can be really job rotations where people change jobs. So there is really a job opening, so it's no cost to the company. So that's of course one way to do it. The other way is, you know, it's similar to what you described, just offering people opportunities to be with a different function for a certain number of days. Yes, we invest in training, we send people, I don't know, five, 10 days a year on training. So that could be a training initiative to say, you know what, why don't you go with the salesperson for a day to see the customer, but you also see how they do their job and what's maybe difficult for them. And we could do that of course also with other functions and do a kind of a rotational training so people can do kind of a job shadowing. Yeah, I mean that's, that's one other way to do it. Yeah. So I think if we get a little bit creative, there are a lot of ways that don't really cost a lot or sometimes not even anything.
Speaker 1 00:25:01 It, it's, it can be really fascinating. I've always said people should have some experience in sales to know how, you know, how challenging it is cuz I spent decades in it and I, I think it can give you a foundation for so many other jobs and I love the idea of doing different types of jobs to find out what you're good at. And I think one of the problems we have with low engagement is sometimes people don't explore different areas and they're just in one thing and they don't know what anything else offers. Do you think our engagement numbers could be impacted if we let people do this job rotation to maybe find out that maybe they'd much rather be in HR than they would be in sales or whatever. I mean how much would that impact engagement do you think?
Speaker 2 00:25:44 It's a good question. I mean I do think that there are potentially people who would love that idea, you know, and it would be increasing their engagement cuz as they, oh look at that, you know, my company gives me the opportunity to explore other opportunities. There could also potentially be people who are not that excited about it because they feel quite comfortable where they are. So I don't have an answer for that, Diane, but I think it's a great thought.
Speaker 1 00:26:10 It's an interesting thing. I guess I had interviewed a guy who told me he hired people and then put them into positions after he decide he, he wrote a job description for them once he decided what they were good at. And I would love for that to be the case at any company, but I'm sure most companies can't afford it <laugh> to just create job positions like that. But it is interesting to see the shifts in HR and how they're handling all of the changes since Covid. What's the biggest change that you have had to experience culturally or, and how you do business in HR or what you've seen others been doing in HR since Covid?
Speaker 2 00:26:45 I mean, COVID itself of course was a huge crisis for us to manage. Yeah. On the one side, you know, ensuring that our people are safe, but at the same time, I mean particularly in healthcare, you know, when we don't produce, it's not only, you know, bad for us in terms of, oh we don't generate revenues, but at the same time we are impacting patients around the world. Yeah. So that was very, very critical for us. And then in the second step hybrid, right? I mean hybrid is a nice word and it sounds fantastic and I mean we were one of the companies saying, oh wow, you know, this works so wonderful, let's go for it. But then at the same time, understanding, well making hybrid work is very different than putting it on paper as something that everybody wants. Yeah. But if then suddenly I have team members who are physically somewhere because they love to return to the office and there are others who stay at home, how do I keep engagement up? Back to your question, you know, how do I really ensure that teams can work effectively together? How can I ensure that our people stay healthy also mentally healthy? Because we have all been working in very, let's say, tough environments in the past years. You know, a lot of online meetings, a lot of, let's say stretch schedules. So all of that also needs to be reset up to be truly effective but also truly a place where people enjoy working and would love to be in.
Speaker 1 00:28:06 You made me think of when I worked virtually and most of the people did not in this one company and they would have meetings and I'd be on the speakerphone, uh, off in the corner while everybody else were <laugh> doing their actual meetings. And I, I really wasn't involved because I wasn't there. And I'm wondering how much they're gonna see of that, where the people have more of a voice who are actually in the room than those who are on a box somewhere. Are you seeing that to be problematic?
Speaker 2 00:28:36 Absolutely. One of the biggest topics we discussed. Yeah. And you know, it, it sounds, sounds minor now, but technology was set up in the past in a way that you have, you know, you have the big screen, so you have some people in the room. It was possible before that you have people online and in the room, but then you have a lot of small little pictures on this big screen and it doesn't really feel like you are one group and you know, either when they're very few people in the room, it's too like the conversation happens online and you feel excluded when you're physically in a room or the other way around. Yeah. So that's one of the key topics we have been working on. And you know, while we didn't have all the technology in place that we wanted, we then started having the laptops in front of us in the room to create, you know, everybody has a picture on the screen. So it felt back into being one group. But that's still something where I think also from a technology perspective, we need, we need a lot better solutions to make that work effectively.
Speaker 1 00:29:35 I, it, it is gonna be interesting to see how the VR world catches up with what, what we want to have. I, I mean I love the idea of at least if you're gonna have people on screens, instead of having the Hollywood squares, everybody on one, <laugh> on one computer, having everybody have at least one screen. So that feels like they're there and they have the same input. I actually had a guy from Zoom on my show prior to all the Covid things cuz I loved Zoom prior to this and I, I, I sure it overwhelm them with the, what everybody ended up doing, but we've all gotten thrown into this new world, this new reality, and it seems like everybody's just still trying to catch up. What, what's the last word you'd like to have today? Just what you think HR needs to, to know about cultural awareness, cultural changes, post covid culture? Is there something we didn't talk about that you think is really important for people listening today?
Speaker 2 00:30:28 I think, Diane, we talked about so many things, you know, we touched on so many topics. I just feel, you know, getting back to the discussion we had around curiosity and self-awareness and empathy, you know, in this fast pace world, we're very often, I find a lot of us being in this, all we have to do, do, do and execute, execute, execute mode. You know, to really take intentionally that moment to pause and make sure that we spend enough time with our people on, you know, creating that curiosity, establishing that self-awareness, then be able, you know, to be truly empathetic leaders and employees will be very crucial for the future.
Speaker 1 00:31:12 Well, I I love ending on curiosity notes since that's what my area of research is and I love that because we really need to get out of status quo ways of doing things. We found that out with Covid. We found out how important culture is and understanding everybody's unique preferences. And I, I think this was such a helpful episode. Thank you so much Olivia, for being on today. This was such a great show.
Speaker 2 00:31:35 Thanks you Diane,
Speaker 1 00:31:36 This was fun. And uh, hopefully we'll get a chance to chat again. We always love to hear from you. If you have any questions or comments, head over to gmn.net and say hello. That's where you can sign up for our monthly newsletter. Be sure to follow Global Mentor Network on Twitter and LinkedIn and don't forget to head over to wherever you get your podcasts and subscribe for more tips to elevate your impact. While you're at it, leave a rating and comment. It helps us to keep improving the podcast for you. See you next time for another episode of Leader's Playbook.
