Episode Transcript
Speaker 1 00:00:03 Hi everyone. I'm sweet boo.
Speaker 2 00:00:06 And I'm Dr. Diane Hamilton. Welcome to leaders, playbook a show about how to drive transformational impact in your organization.
Speaker 1 00:00:13 We talk with innovative thinkers across various sectors to hear about the best tools, resources, practices, and strategies to help you and your team reach the top of your game.
Speaker 2 00:00:25 So sit back and relax. We can't wait to share our leaders' insights with you.
Speaker 3 00:00:35 Hello everyone. I am your host, Dr. Diane Hamilton, and I am the CEO of Tenara. I also serve on the board of advisors for the global mentor network. And thank you for joining us today, cuz today our guest is Susan Padar of MetLife, which is the holding corporation for metropolitan life insurance company. And it's affiliate MetLife is among the largest global providers of insurance annuities and employee benefit programs. And as MetLife's executive vice president and chief human resources, officer Susan leads their global HR organization and serves the companies more than 40,000 employees across 43 countries. So we're super excited to have Susan join us today to talk about what they're doing at MetLife to build a culture of wellness. So it's great to have you here, Susan
Speaker 4 00:01:22 You. Thank you. Thank you so much. Great to be here.
Speaker 3 00:01:26 I, I am excited to talk to you about this because I we're talking so much health lately of course, with COVID and everything else going on in the world. And we've not seen a time where we've had so much help and wellness come into focus. So I'm curious, we're gonna get into that. I wanna get your background before we get into what you're doing at MetLife, because I think it's really interesting to find out how people reach this level that you've reached and just, can you give us your backstory?
Speaker 4 00:01:55 Sure, sure. Great. Thank you. Thank you for the question and thank you for having me. And it's a topic that I have extreme passion about, so I'm sure you do too. And so I'm sure we'll have, we'll be riffing on this. So on getting to the, this level, I, I think from an HR perspective, I have been preparing for this my entire life. I am the ninth of nine children. And so I have been part of understanding team dynamics since I was a little one. And you learn about leadership teaming, alliances, competition, and really coming together in, in unity. And what you can do together has always propelled me. I've found my fundamental truth or purpose growing up in that large family is because our parents never taught us that anybody had more potential than anybody else. Everybody had gifts to bring to the world.
Speaker 4 00:02:46 And how do you bring out the best of those gifts? And so that's how that was my fundamental way of growing up. And it's my philosophy today is how do we bring out the gifts of every single employee and how do you bring out the, the potential and the purpose of an organization? So in school I studied labor economics loved that class. It was the convergence of data and behavior. And that's what I think HR is fundamentally about. At least for me, it is. And then I went on consulting. I did mommy track for five years. I left the working environment and did mommy track. And then when I on ramped again, I went to a purpose driven company and I knew that would always be my north star. And so went to that and, and it's because it brings out how I car deeply about the work and the people that are there and because it matters and I've had great leaders along the way that guided me and pushed me harder than I thought I could be pushed myself sometimes and took risks on me. But then I also took risks on myself in some of those positions. And so I get the great opportunity every day to solve incredible problems and touch many, many lives. And it's about driving sustainable performance for me. And it's always the way I've always looked at the work is not just solving problems for today, but how do we peak around the corner and solve problems for tomorrow and especially in a system not independent, but how do you systematically think about these issues? So that's kind of my journey.
Speaker 3 00:04:19 Wow, it's quite a journey. And I give you credit that taking the five year mommy time is brave. You know, I watched a documentary where they showed it was like Greenland or where they had forced paternity leave because women were getting behind from taking time off to be with their kids. So they were forcing men to take the same amount of time to keep everybody in, in check. I thought that was fascinating. Did you have a fear of coming, like losing that time that you were gonna get behind somehow?
Speaker 4 00:04:47 Not really. I did. I didn't have a fear. I've I've always been really driven and I've always been with a mindset that life will take me on the journey that life takes me on. Yeah. And so I have not been one to say, I've planned this role plan, this plan, this I'm not I'm. I just look at opportunity and say, how do I make the best of that opportunity and how do I contribute? So that's been kind of like my purpose in north star.
Speaker 3 00:05:10 Well, I think that that's a great outlook, especially with right now so much going on, as I mentioned at the beginning, you know, with COVID and I'm curious how it changed your focus, if at all at MetLife and you know, what has been the impact from all that?
Speaker 4 00:05:24 Wow. I mean, the times we live in, right? I never forget, I, I work actually over grand central and there was a day, it was March of 2021. I was in the office that day. I walked in grand central and there were five people. Oh, grand central. And so just the surrealness of the times that we live in the focus on wellness, the, the good news is MetLife. It's a foundation of, of actually who MetLife is. We had our first gym in 1897 <laugh> wow. So it was a room in headquarters that was, was a gym. We had our first fitness challenge in 1959. And so people reported about being energized and it's so good for people who sit all day. So we've started that, but listen, we've had a journey of, of wellness along the way, but what COVID did, and actually the world that we live in today has powered it up and accelerated and shined a light on it.
Speaker 4 00:06:21 So some of the things that we've done is, is dialed it up. And I would say that we're doing more of more resources, you know, access in the beginning of the pandemic access to, to vaccines education. We had doctors come in, we put in, we were having feedback on financial wellness. People were concerned about that. So we have an app called up wise that we gave to all of our employees for free. We upped our legal benefit for our employees because of their ability to put will in place and, and have access to that as well. And then a lot of peer to peer support groups, because these were unprecedented times people had no playbook. People were sculpting fog every day. How do we operate in this environment? And we found the greatest way to do that is in very small peer groups where you have trust and you were able to work through case scenarios with each other.
Speaker 4 00:07:13 The other thing is we had more conversations, you know, the, the killing of George Floyd, you know, the civil unrest that we had around the world. And so we had some really courageous conversations because we fundamentally feel that the mental health and inclusion are absolutely paramount and critical to having a culture of wellness. And so we had stress management courses around the world, you know, Japan, we had 400 people invited to a stress management class in a, in a country that typically doesn't have this conversation 326 people participated. Wow. And so it shows that need, we had more training, more role modeling, you know, it was new territory for leaders. How do you have an inclusive environment? How do you, how do you create empathy? How do you create connection in this, in this new environment? How do I support my working parents? And so all of these things came together. And then also the, the final thing is just more communication. We had a lot of resources that were out there, but they were out there. Right, right. And so it was connecting all the dots together and we created these curated pathways for employees so that they could customize it for themselves of what they were dealing with at that time.
Speaker 3 00:08:27 I mean, that's quite impressive what you were able to do. I mean, it's very proactive and a lot of people hadn't had that sense of proactivity before this all hit. So you guys were definitely ahead in, but a lot of it comes down to core competencies. You mentioned a lot of these things like trust and, and building empathy. I did a lot of research in the area of emotional intelligence and I, you know, in curiosity, and some of the things you're talking about are a lot of the things that I've researched and it's very challenging. You asked the question, how do you build empathy? How do you get trust? How do you get all these things? So I'm curious if you wanna answer any of those and what core competencies you believe are required for leaders to be effective at creating a culture of wellness.
Speaker 4 00:09:09 Yeah. I think, I think that's fabulous and, and really your leaders really can be your accelerators in an organization. And so I think it's, it's almost like competencies in a process because if fundamentally your leaders don't understand why we're focused on this and they don't believe that. And they don't show that that's gonna break down that trust. Right? So we have this living our purposes about building confident futures for our customers, for our employees, for our shareholders and the communities in which we live. And so to live into that, we need our employees to have a calm mind, move forward with confidence and feel that they're equipped to face each day with strength and fortitude, no matter what they face and it's that's for them to do their best. An organization is only a collection of individuals. And if you individuals are doing your best, your organization is going to do their best.
Speaker 4 00:10:06 Your customers are gonna be served better. You're able to, to deliver for your shareholders and your community. But if you have, if you have employees that walk in every day and, and they're, they're distracted, they're tired, they're anxious, they feel isolated, or they feel weak. They're not gonna be at their best. And so consequently, your organization's not gonna be at their best. So really understanding that purpose and how the wellness feeds into sustainable performance of the organization is, is I think the fundamental piece, and then showing that you care that you value them, that you understand them as an individual, not just as a worker, but as an individual and understand who they are and what they may be dealing with three, I think is showing your humanity. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. And then, you know, in showing that, listen, we're all work in progress. Yeah. Right.
Speaker 4 00:10:58 In, in organization. So that showing, setting examples, giving them permission. And then to your point on curiosity, this is not an easy topic. People think, oh, it's a fitness challenge. Oh, it's good food in the cafeteria. Oh, it's, it's not. If you really look at wellbeing of an organization and wellbeing of an individual, it is about setting boundaries, inclusion, recognizing mental health signals, financial wellness, social ties, it's a complex topic and you have to be a student of it as well. And then finally just act so to summarize to your point, it's empathy, it's care, it's being vulnerable. It's being curious. And then it's being accountable.
Speaker 3 00:11:38 I couldn't say that any better. And I think that what's really interesting when you're talking about wellness programs is it kind of goes back to when I was reaching, researching emotional intelligence and curiosity, and you think of the people who need it most, aren't probably going to read about it. Right? And so with help, it's kind of the same way in some ways. And I've worked for organizations where they'd have, I remember working in banking industry and they offered people would come to massage your neck while you were working at your desk. And everybody kind of felt uncomfortable doing that. Nobody really used it. And then I worked in another company for 20 years where they sent these healthy habits, newsletters, and they tried to get you to follow their health or, you know, healthy lifestyle suggestions. But some of these things can't be mandated and it's, or if you do, it sends a whole different message. How do you get people to want to focus on their wellness? If you know, it's, it may be in your culture, but sometimes some people don't want it.
Speaker 4 00:12:37 It's, <laugh>, it's actually a great, a great point. You can, you can lead 'em to water. Right? Right.
Speaker 3 00:12:42 Exactly.
Speaker 4 00:12:44 And, you know, listen, I, I try to remember things and, and easier ways. And so this is like the four ease, right? For me, it's, it's encourage it, expect it, give examples and evaluate it. Right? So encourage it. We do incentives. So every year you, if, if a family, an individual can earn up to $200, by having these healthy behaviors, we do things as simple as listen. If you self-identify that you listen to our E mindful app and you meditated five times on your own, we don't check, we don't check the app. Anything you can put in for a $50 bonus just by doing that. Right? So it's this incentives to encourage them to do it. Flu shots, vaccine shots. We've, we've done that as a surrounding starting point. We expect it. We talk about this, that this is a fundamental way that we win. When our employees can bring them full selves and actually they're full energy to work. And that's what we're trying to manage, that, that energy. And I expect you not to work on vacation. We had two leaders that called into a leadership meeting while they were on vacation. And the head of that group said, I'm sorry, you must hang up right now.
Speaker 3 00:13:58 I love that.
Speaker 4 00:13:58 So it's expected and put those boundaries and have guide those and role model that and give permission. And then I think the other thing, the storytelling is probably one of the most powerful things because success breeds, success, energy breeds, energy. And so when people start seeing this and saying, oh, that's rewarded, that's recognized in the organization. And they really mean it. They're just testing you to see if you really mean it. And you stand behind your words. And then, you know, in, in role modeling, I think is, is huge. And then just evaluation, how are we doing? And so we have a question on our employees survey, we have a healthy behaviors index, and that is do we set the right conditions for employees to have healthy behaviors and, and healthy actions. And so those are things. And then we read every single comment that comes in along that, and then adapt and adjust. It's the system that has to go around. Cause to your very, very good point, you can put a lot out there, but people may or may not use it. And especially if they don't know about it,
Speaker 3 00:15:00 And you can use some of these in team building exercises sometimes, you know, just healthy ways of doing things. I I've had companies that did such great job with that. I've had others that probably could have gotten a little bit better. I mean, they, they would have these health and wellness backgrounds of, you know, programs I should say, but then you'd go to a meeting and it'd be all high carb meal. And, you know, cuz it was less expensive to have fruit roll ups or whatever <laugh> they had on the table instead of what they talked about is staying healthy, low carb. And how do you make sure that you're doing, you know, what you say you're doing? I mean, do you have certain foods that you guys have at your meetings that go along with what you should eat? Because you say we are on this wellness track or these things are easy to for overlook. I think for some companies.
Speaker 4 00:15:48 Oh totally. Totally. Yeah. And, and on team building too, just my team, actually we are doing a breathing coaching together. Oh. So we have, we have a coach, we have an app, we all do it individually. And then our coach comes back and, and coaches us. So it's again, it's that role modeling what things that, you know, that may not be doing it in terms of having the healthy behaviors, having the healthy foods. I think it's, if you set the tone. So we had, we have 49% of our employees that are virtual and in the us and we sent them all a snack box cuz we were giving free food in, in the cafeteria. So we sent them a snack box. It was all healthy food. And so it's, it's an investment. Could we have done something, you know, maybe a, a box of bagels or donuts.
Speaker 4 00:16:36 Would've been a little bit cheaper, probably Uhhuh, but it's it's that investment. But can I tell you we still have those things. Yes, but we do in our cafeteria have labels on the healthy food and we have a gym and we have stretch breaks and things like that. But I do think, you know, these things that are inconsistent when you have the things that can be your, your accelerators or your unifiers, your purpose can be a unifier in order to allow you to move forward in this. It's bigger than just what you have. I think the food is, is symbolic. It's almost a signal versus what do you really believe in? And so your, your managers, like I said before, your managers and your leaders can be a great accelerator to this culture and it, and if it's not, it will fall through the cracks.
Speaker 4 00:17:25 Right? Mm-hmm <affirmative> and, and the same thing with communications things fall through the cracks because employees don't know, you know, what you have and, and what you might have within the organization. And so I think it's, it's understanding what are you playing for on the big picture and how do you unify against it? How do you accelerate that? How do you minimize your barriers? And then to your very good point, you gotta watch all the signals that you're sending. Because if you send the wrong signals, people will look at you and you, you asked a very good question right in the beginning is that trust. If you say something and you do something and that say, do gap, that is where you're gonna break down that trust.
Speaker 3 00:18:04 Uh, I love how you put that, say, do gap, cuz that does exist. I mean, in so many organizations and, and a lot of organizations, maybe aren't realizing the signals they send. I could remember though, working for a company when we went to meetings, they gave you voucher tickets. If you only could have two drinks or whatever it is, you know, they made it clear, like we don't want people doing over consuming. We don't want them doing these things. And that sent a signal. But I think a lot of organizations, they don't really focus on setting boundaries or wellness requirements and there's costs involved with this, right? I mean, what kind of costs are they looking at for not doing it? I'm sure you've probably looked at some of the, the, the issues out there. What are they,
Speaker 4 00:18:46 I would say they're direct and indirect costs right today. When you look at employees and what do they want? And we do this thing called the employee benefits trend study every year. And employees want a company that has meaningful work, inclusive cultures, flexibility, financial stability for them. They have the infinity groups where they feel they belong. We have a, we do a lot of work on belonging and they wanna know that they have the support, you know, for, for their families as well. And they wanna be invested in, and with this labor market, wellness is one of the holistic wellness is one of those areas that is an investment and a differentiator. And in fact, in the, in the study, it says, if a company cares about the employee's wellbeing and cares about the full employee, that they're 74% more satisfied with their job, they're 53% more productive and have a higher intent to stay.
Speaker 4 00:19:45 So that is kind of, you know, you have those costs that you're gonna have opportunity costs of missing talent and retain engaging talent. If you don't pay attention to this holistically, the direct costs go into absenteeism. You know, the claims that you have productivity. And it was interesting. I was just talking to my head of, of benefits and he said, he's just maybe too much information. But he said, Susan, I, bowel syndrome is way up in terms of our claims. And he said, the number one predictor of irritable bowel is stress. And so now we have to go back to the root cause of what do we do in order to address that we had people who couldn't get access to mental health. Why? Because they couldn't get in the system for months and months. So what we did is we pulled down the barrier to entry, which was out of network folks that would provide support and service. And we reimbursed it as if it was in network. So it's just going back to the data and really understanding what are those direct costs that you're seeing. And again, what are the signals and then reaching behind it to say, well, what's the data, what's the root cause. And let me go after the root cause rather than just the, the first line thing that I see.
Speaker 3 00:21:02 Well, you really guess some great results and some data from people love to hear that the stuff's working. And I'm curious if you looked at it by generations or some generations of bigger buy-ins to this kind of health wellness program yeah. Than others. I mean, our boomers less likely than millennials or vice versa. I'm just curious.
Speaker 4 00:21:21 Yeah. Z gen Z. And I don't have the data right in front of it, but gen Z is the biggest group that expects wellness in the organization. And so Z and actually gen Z is the most mentally unhealthy out of the population coming into work. And so it's, it's really, I mean, you're, you're getting into almost a, you know, the, the next pandemic is really mental health and you know, this is, this is an area we spend a lot of time on as, as an organization, just because, and I was talking to Aaron Hurst of the purpose economy and he was saying in the research that he did, 61% of people at work were lonely before the pandemic. So just even think about what we're dealing with now. Right. And so the most mentally unhealthy generation is gen Z. And they're the ones looking for more and more of this holistic wellness.
Speaker 3 00:22:16 Well, you obviously have done the research to find out what everybody needs, but I think a lot of companies make mistakes when they're trying to implement a wellness program. So can you give 'em any advice as to what are some of those mistakes when trying to implement one?
Speaker 4 00:22:31 Yeah. I think that the mistakes, when you go into a wellness program is one is I think that you start thinking about it too narrowly, and you think about it as just a program, right? It's an add on, it's nice to have and not a fundamental key driver of performance, because if you're actually seeing it as a key driver of performance, you are now talking in the business language and you're looking for outcomes that are gonna impact the organization. And I would say just a limited narrow view of what wellness is. I think wellness for an organization is, you know, looking at organization can be well and individuals can be well and, and expanding those two. And I think it is just making it integrated and accessible. I think the other mistake we made the mistake is, listen, if you build it, they will come <laugh> they won't, they
Speaker 3 00:23:27 Won't.
Speaker 4 00:23:27 Yeah. You know, you, you just have to make it accessible for people and, and be able to treat it like a product launch. And what we've seen through our data is every time we have a communication, we have an uptick in hits in all of our wellness platforms. And so that, that interconnectivity to understand what drives it is absolutely critical.
Speaker 3 00:23:48 Well, let's say somebody's listening to this and they just wanna start with a few things to improve wellness in the corporation. What are like just a few things just to get them started.
Speaker 4 00:23:59 Yeah. I would say first to, to start, I think it's just understand where the pressure points are in the organization and listen to where the needs are at that point, your employees, they know they'll tell you what they are. Yeah. And being able to address those. So if burnout's the issue, work on prioritization, work on meeting with them, and don't just say, you know, turn off your computer at a certain time. That's not gonna help. You have to get to the fundamental issue of what you're addressing. We had a safety concern in New York city. So what we put in is we put shuttles in place to take people from, you know, Penn station here. And so it's, it's really understanding where they are. I think to putting things in place, by having leaders ask employees and employees asking each other, how are you doing? It's, it's pretty darn simple, right. But how are you doing and really care about the answer you can ask? You know, when you go down the hall, how are you today? And just fly by, but really sitting down and understanding how people are doing and understanding what they may be happening in their life. And then I would just, I would say big, big focus on education and communication.
Speaker 3 00:25:08 It's so important. And I think that it's, the communication has to go both ways. And I've seen so many great examples of companies who just simply asked their employees, how can we make this better for you? And they got such great feedback. I mean, it's just a simple question. Sometimes can give you unbelievable results, but there's sometimes you just try things and you wanna try, 'em you think, oh, this sounds good, but maybe it's not really gonna be that effective. I mean, do you hear of other companies, it doesn't have to be yours just in general that try these wellness related initiatives and it just don't work. What is what doesn't work?
Speaker 4 00:25:42 Yeah. I actually think most wellness programs work. If you have the right outcome, you're looking for, right. I think many awareness, right? If they're just to build awareness, most of them will work in terms of just building awareness. But if you're fundamentally trying to get to human behavior change, that's a very different journey. And I think it goes back to the most ineffective programs are when there is that say, do gap, when you say something and then you're not authentic to that outcome. People are gonna smell that right away. And so if you say, you know, I really prioritize work life integration and oh, I need that by Monday morning. Oh, sorry that you have to work on Sunday night in order to deliver that to me. And so that I think is the, the biggest thing that, that gap. And then the second thing is ones that expect immediate results.
Speaker 4 00:26:39 When in fast change, when wellness is a continual journey, just because the, the conditions are always changing, right? So you look at what's happened in the world, you know, very recently that those conditions change now brought a whole new level of stress into the organization. So always listening and being on top of it and ones that are relevant for the time and for the needs. And I think your point is spot on in terms of ask your employees, what are those pressure points and what are they dealing with and what do you wanna see? That's how we built our entire be well platform. It was a co-creation with our employees.
Speaker 3 00:27:14 It's so important. And I can remember working for a company that would survey every year, what we thought about things. But then I think, and the whole time I worked for them, which was long time, they didn't ever tell us that they used anything that they asked us about. How can you make sure that you get input from your employees, but that they know you're actually utilizing it or they don't get their feelings hurt if you don't utilize it. Is that kind of a touchy kind of situation?
Speaker 4 00:27:39 Yeah. Yeah. And so we do a lot of that. So we ask for a lot of feedback. And so for example, our, our survey, we get a hundred thousand comments on every cycle. We read every single comment. And then we feedback to the organization, what we heard. And then we talk about the broad actions we're going to take. And so we do give that feedback. And in our survey, the actual highest score above benchmark is I believe action will be taken as a result of this survey. And so we bring it back in into the conversations and our CEO is the one who leads those conversations of the feedback and very transparent. Listen, you may not always like the answer of what we're gonna do or not do, but we wanna be transparent and open with you on that. So that too brings back to that trust.
Speaker 3 00:28:33 Yeah. I think people wanna know why, right?
Speaker 4 00:28:36 Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 3 00:28:37 I mean, sometimes you can't use this for this reason and when people hear that, it answers that and they, they calm down a lot. And I, I think though, you're, you can get so much data, as you mentioned, in your example, there's so much data. How do you deal with all this data overload? You just like your brain sometimes
Speaker 4 00:28:56 <laugh> most days actually. No, no, it's, it's, I'm like a, a data junkie too, but what I really push with the team is focus on what matters most. There's a lot of data out there. That's not gonna tell your story or is not gonna get to the root cause. All we're interested in is root cause and signals that are coming out. So either early data detection and early signals that we should start paying attention to keep 'em in the back of your mind or the ones that are overt that we're seeing and trending through the system. So those are, you know, always keeping on top. And so the team, you know, I have, I have a great data oriented team as well, and we are a data company. So if you wanna be heard you come and you move forward with data, it's a currency.
Speaker 3 00:29:42 I'd love to see more data out there. I've talked to so many leaders about this, you know, of how you, some things are intuitive. You know, if you ask questions, if you're curious, it's gonna improve all these different areas like engagement and, you know, communication, all these things that lead to productivity, but there's not a lot of data out there. So I'd love to see more companies coming up with data because there's all these benefits that we can see from all these things. So what if you're building a wellness initiative, what kind of benefits are you measuring? And what have you really you've said a few things earlier. Is there anything else that people out there who are listening to this could imagine the kind of benefits that they could get from this
Speaker 4 00:30:20 Couple things is one going back to your metrics, right? Look at your health plans, look at your, your leaves, look at your disabilities and see, how are you trending there in some of the root causes? I think on your, on your scores, look at your engagement on things like healthy behaviors. They want to continue recommend, you know, the, the organization. But I think the other thing is data, which is it's a qualitative measure, not quantitative. And it's just the stories that make my heart sing. Right? And when you create a culture of inclusion, so we had an employee that was just on our global town hall. When he, when she joined as Olivia in 2014 was not bringing full self to work at any time and felt that the culture at MetLife was so strong and the leaders so trusted that. Now, Olivia is Owen and went through the transition with us at MetLife and told a story and is now a resource for other employees.
Speaker 4 00:31:15 That's not a data point. That's, that's a person that brings why it makes my heart sing is because everything you pull together to hope for an outcome is told through a story, right? And so, you know, it's, it's just fundamentally caring and they're gonna feel that whether you care for your employees, for who they are, who they wanna be, how they bring their best selves to work. And it's, it's like a child asks, you know, are we there yet? <laugh> and, and I would say, no, we're not there, but the map is telling us we're in the right direction.
Speaker 3 00:31:50 I, I like that a lot. And I think it, you know, you got, you try to see us. I'm thinking my all trails, when I'm hiking, you know, you, you wanna <laugh> please don't let me go off path. And so what is your path for next year? Is there some big new thing on what's what's up next for you?
Speaker 4 00:32:05 Yeah. For next year, because we have moved to this hybrid environment. We are looking very much. I always say, if you lose inclusion, you lose as an organization. And so when you have employees that are 49%, totally virtual in, in half that are in the hybrid organization, about 45 that are in the hybrid and six that are in office full time. That's a fundamental place that we're gonna continue to focus on is that inclusion and then continuing to evolve our programs and be sensitive to the needs of the employees and, and what we're hearing out there.
Speaker 3 00:32:43 Well, it sounds like you guys have definitely done a lot to focus on the wellbeing of your employees and that I can see why you're so successful. This has been so great to have you on the show, Susan, I really enjoyed our conversation. Thank you for being part of our global mentor network.
Speaker 4 00:33:00 Thank you, Diane. I think we could have gone on for hours, but thank you. I really appreciate it. All right. Thank you. All right.
Speaker 3 00:33:06 Take care. You're welcome. Be glad I let you go. I have a million questions for you, maybe the next
Speaker 4 00:33:12 Be, well,
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