Episode Transcript
Speaker 1 00:00:03 Hi, everyone. Welcome to leaders. Playbook a show about how to drive transformational impact in your organization. We talk with innovative thinkers across various sectors to hear about the best tools, resources, practices, and strategies to help you and your team reach the top of game. I'm your host VU. And I can't wait to share our leaders' insights with you. Our topic for this episode is internal mobility, creating career pathways for employees within an organization. It's a mission that's front and center for our two guests today from blue shield of California. Mary O'Hara is the executive vice president of people and engagement at blue shield. And Kristen wood is a vice president and head of talent there. Welcome to you both.
Speaker 2 00:00:55 Thank you. Thank you
Speaker 1 00:00:57 So great to see you too, ladies. Today, let's start off with lane the foundation for the concept of internal mobility. Mary, how do you define it?
Speaker 2 00:01:06 Yeah, we'll simply put it's really about the movement of people inside of your organization and being quite intentional about that. So that we're both deliberate about our processes, as well as our programs to support the movement of talent through roles that help the, to achieve their aspirations, but also quite deliberately connecting them to the talent strategy that enables the business strategy.
Speaker 1 00:01:29 So one thing phase the other <laugh>
Speaker 2 00:01:31 Exactly right. Exactly.
Speaker 1 00:01:34 Well, our world has changed so rapidly over the past two years, the workforces distributed, lots of people are working from home. People want flexible hours, studies show time and time again. The great resignation is happening as well. Do these trends make internal mobility programs and opportunities more or less important in an organization? Do you think Kristin,
Speaker 3 00:01:59 Do these trends make internal mobility programs more important in organization today? I'd say there's two key reasons for that. The first is making a commitment to empower every person in the organization to grow and develop can help to reduce resignations and retain talent. The second thing I'd say is the opportunity to share that internal mobility is important to an organization is a point for talent acquisition. So there are people resigning when they don't have an opportunity to be transferred or promoted in their former organization. And these candidates will gravitate toward organizations that offer growth and development and promotion opportunities.
Speaker 2 00:02:39 Yeah, I I'd also just add, I'm sure you saw the economists this week, talked a little bit about the staff shortages in America and really as a glimpse into the future. The fact of the matter is that organizations that don't manage your talent pool internally as very important assets and quite intentionally try to cultivate the potential of your, of the people that work for you. I think that you're potentially doing so at peril
Speaker 1 00:03:06 Because you're hurting recruiting and retention efforts, Mary
Speaker 2 00:03:10 Well, because there's just a tremendous shortage. Candidly, there was a great piece of work that was published by Agon. Zender a search firm I'm have heard of yes, couple of years ago that cited the trillion dollar talent gap globally. And the economist just this week, coming out with these staff shortages in America, where we're, you know, millions of workers short relative to the jobs that are posted, and then you translate into healthcare and the industry that we're in and by 2023 or 2030, I should say the world health organization expects a net shortage of about 15 million healthcare work.
Speaker 1 00:03:47 Wow. I didn't know that
Speaker 2 00:03:49 It's 15 million, 15 million, 15 million. And so it just amplifies, I think what Kristen is saying about not only your employment brand, but it also means you've gotta grow your own. There's that's an absolute there's no, if sands or butts about that.
Speaker 1 00:04:05 So then what are you guys doing at blue shield of California to grow your own? Kristen,
Speaker 3 00:04:10 We have a number of things I'd say first we've really been programmatic about it. And we have a pipeline and pathway program set by position level. So at every level of leadership, we care deeply that we build a strong pipeline and that we put pathways in place for folks to grow and develop. So it's, it's a both. And for us, we have to make sure that we have enough talent to succeed folks as they grow. And we wanna provide pathways for our employees to be able to continue to grow and develop and stay with a so one key thing is our pipeline and pathway program. You know, aside from that, we make sure that we have development plans in place for everyone mm-hmm <affirmative> because it's important that everyone has an opportunity to be able to grow and develop. So we really focus on that as well.
Speaker 1 00:04:56 Can you give us an example of that? How do you sprinkle that among everybody within an organization?
Speaker 3 00:05:02 Absolutely. First we needed philosophical alignment from the top to know that this was something we wanted to do for all. And then we invested in a tool to make sure that we actually have professional development plans in place for everyone mm-hmm <affirmative>. And we aligned the timing of it with our smart goals and our midyear and yearend reviews. So that folks are consistently updating them when they're already in a system doing work to align to their smart goals or their business goals and how they've performed each year. So mm-hmm, <affirmative>, they'll continue to keep updating what their development plan is, as they're also making sure that they're working with their leader on how they've been for me.
Speaker 1 00:05:43 So let's say for companies that want to do something like this, but don't have something like that already. Can you give a concrete example of how that would work? Let's take the example of, uh, Jane and the organization who's part of this program. How does it work for Jane at whatever level she's at you? You can choose
Speaker 3 00:06:01 First. What you'd want to do is make certain that the leaders are aligned and then Jane would need an actual document to be able to share things like what are Jane's strengths, where are Jane's areas of development? What, uh, does Jane wanna do in the short term over the next six or so months? And then what are Jane's longer term career aspirations so that whether Jane's leader or her mentor or her peers have a conversation with her, she has the opportunity to be able to share what her plan is, what she'd like to be doing, and folks can help to sponsor that plan and, and help her to get there faster.
Speaker 1 00:06:42 That's the great example. Thank you. And Mary blue shield, I think is more progressive than many organizations on this front, in that you have actual numerical targets in place for promotions from within and opposed to external hires. Can you talk about that?
Speaker 2 00:07:01 Yeah. I mean, I think context matters. Obviously every business has its own set of circumstances. In our case, we're a mission driven company and that means that coming to work at blue shield, you have to really, really care about what we're trying to get done. And that has to have deep breath with you. And the meaning associated with that in large measure is a fairly critical screening process to begin with, right? To have people that wanna come in and help to transform the healthcare industry. That's an important part of who gets hired here. And the other part of it is also fundamental to what our E ethos is in terms of our values and what that means in terms of leadership and what we expect from people up and down the system. And so when you've done that amount of upfront thinking about your philosophy and how deeply, what you do and the meaning of your work matters, and then fundamentally who arguably shares your values, you want to do as much as you possibly can to cultivate and engage that resource pool, to be able to help, you know, again, create the readiness and the supply and the mix that the business needs at any given point in time.
Speaker 2 00:08:15 And so we have set targets largely because we wanna be both represe of the markets that we serve. And that's an important part of our ethos here is we wanna help California where blue shield of California. So we wanna represent the markets that we operate in, but we also wanna make sure that we're always treating everybody here with opportunity. Everybody at blue shield has opportunity to grow personally profess and financially mm-hmm <affirmative>. And so part of our talent practices deeply institutionalized the role of leaders and the role of individuals in that career growth and development. And you just heard Kristen talk about the rigor and development planning for Jane as an example, but it also means setting goals that we aspire to to make sure that there's enough movement of our people. And that sets us apart from the outside, right. That people seek to come to blue shield. There really is opportunity to grow, and it's certainly less costly than constantly trying to get that capability.
Speaker 1 00:09:16 So, Kristen, what are your numerical targets at blue shield of California for internal promotions?
Speaker 3 00:09:22 Yeah, we have set numerical targets both at the operational or the organizational level and also at the leadership level. So we have a 35% commitment to be able to promote internally and we align that commitment to our talent acquisition function, so that they're thinking about a source of talent and a pipeline of talent being our internal folks first, before they go source externally, that's been key and critical for us and we've been able to achieve over 40% of internal com in leadership alone, which is fantastic.
Speaker 1 00:09:59 That is amazing. You exceeded, your target,
Speaker 3 00:10:01 Did exceed our target this past year for the last several years, actually. So it's been really important to tie that to our talent acquisition goals so that their success is the same as the numerical targets that for the organization.
Speaker 1 00:10:14 And you touched on this a little early, but I, I know that you have numerous programs at blue shield of California to mobilize talents from within. Can you talk about that? The different levels, the different pathway programs you have for everyone from executives to junior leaders?
Speaker 3 00:10:31 Yes, certainly. So we offer talent mobility programs at all levels to be able to increase to succession accelerate development and increase our retention, frankly, as we've been talking about the programs we have in place start at our executive level. So we have both an executive acceleration program to move into some of our most senior positions and a readiness program for our senior leaders that are aspiring to either expand their REM or take on additional teams to be really position ready to do that. And that typically sits around our vice president and above positioning level. The next is really, we have emerging leadership programs. So we offer programs for folks that have had some management experience, typically have a degree based on the program or an undergraduate degree, and they're pursuing additional education. And we really look to position ready folks for our mid to senior level positions.
Speaker 3 00:11:28 And then we have readiness programs, so programs to either help individual contributors move into leadership for the first time or help pretty be junior leaders, be able to start to take on a large, a remit and be able to lead. I think the important part of each of the programs is that there's a timeframe set. We have nominations into the program and we really offer an opportunity for folks to learn our leadership model and be able to really align to our philosophy and understand our mission as Mary mentioned, and our enterprise goals so that as they graduate, they have enough information to be strong leaders at whichever position level that they're in.
Speaker 1 00:12:11 So it's a very strong, it's not a, Hey let's, let's throw this out there and, and just accept anybody who wants to come into the program. It sounds like you have some pretty, you know, specific rules and guidelines and whole nomination process.
Speaker 3 00:12:26 We do, we have a nomination process and I would say there's an application process for some of our programs as well. It is important for folks to be able to self-identify and say, if they'd like to be part of something and to know that they have the sponsorship that they're ready for it. So there are times where folks are definitely ready and they can join and they interview and apply and are accepted. There are other times where they may not be ready yet, and they really need the feedback around what to do to be position level, ready to be in these programs and, and what learning maybe needed in advance.
Speaker 1 00:13:00 So Mary, for those who perhaps are aspiring, but not quite there yet, not ready for the program, how do you get them ready within the organization so that they can be part of that whole internal mobility structure that you put in place?
Speaker 2 00:13:13 Yeah, I think, you know, first of all, for us, it's been really important to be very intentional. And that includes, you know, Kristen used the word philosophy earlier. It's a really important part of being in blue shield that you not only share our point of view, but what we're trying to do on our mission here, which is to make healthcare worthy of our family and friends, but a also that you share our ethos around leadership and values. And part of our leadership values is learning. We use that as part of our screening for who gets hired and who gets promoted and who might not be part of the organization. And we're quite intentional about enunciating that about inculcating, that and training to that and helping people understand on those expectations and to really grow in that respect by giving them the tools they need. And so when Kristen says these programs have rigor and intention around the discipline of getting into them, it's also alongside how we talk about performance management, how we talk about expectations, how we make it clear what our values are. And it, again, when you're getting hired, as much as when you're moving along in the organization, always we are communicating in a two-way manner about those things, the values of the company, as much as what we're trying to get done. And that's an emphasis that's as prominent as our business strategy.
Speaker 1 00:14:33 How do you ensure though, that there's diverse and across the board in these programs, as you know, most organizations it's generally recognized can do a better job, uh, on that front and need to do a better job on that front.
Speaker 3 00:14:49 I'm happy to take this one. And I'm thrilled to say we just spent time with our entire organization yesterday, leading a diversity equity and inclusion all hands mm-hmm <affirmative>. So everyone understands our philosophy on the commitment to ensuring diversity across our organization and at every leadership level, but also in our programs. So we established diverse represe commitments across our organization and specific to each program, the diversity commitments aligned enterprise and leadership commitments. So we can ensure that we're helping to hit those diversity commitments over time. It's not a quota or to the decimal point, but it's certainly a reasonable range that we'd like to be at. And we let's use one of our programs. By example, we have a program ready to lead. And so that program is to ready individual contributors, to be supervisors and leaders over time. And of that the program's over 60% diverse. That's an excellent way for us to move individuals who may have not otherwise had the opportunity and under percent populations. Yeah, two leadership positions in an accelerated fashion. And we're thrilled because over 50% of our graduates have been promoted after the program and our diverse talent. And that's bringing great diverse talent into our business units at leadership levels.
Speaker 2 00:16:09 But it's also in part a credit to at Kristen, the intentionality around the schools that we go to to recruit from, right. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. So if you're looking at schools that have diverse populations, and you're making sure that your intake is as diverse as a result of that, that you're not just looking at Ivy league for instance, or in a more narrow economic range for you're more likely to have a diverse pool to select from. And then it goes alongside again, this ethos that we're constantly working on institutionalizing and making clear about what's important here, and that's good for business as much as it is for, for talent, right? Mm-hmm <affirmative> we know that those things stand us apart as an employer, but it's also tremendously important for business because you have people therefore that are truly engaged and far more likely to be loyal to your organization and to continuously learn and grow along with the direction of the business.
Speaker 1 00:17:06 So what are some of the more quote unquote unconventional schools are you recruiting from instead of just, you know, going to the Ivy leagues, for example,
Speaker 3 00:17:14 Great question. I mean, we are a California based organization, so we look at universities in California. That's very important. We have over 28 university partnerships, I should say. So it's not all California Uhhuh many. And we look based on our business unit needs. So some need in our finance would be different than our health solutions. The universities, we established relationships with also help with the roles and the pipeline that we build. And as Mary was mentioning, it's, you know, really good for business for us. We want to align our diversity to the communities that we serve. So being in our community universities and helping to build opportunities in those communities for folks to graduate and to have opportunity with our organization to work helps our members and our communities as well. So mm-hmm, <affirmative>, that's been really multi-layered in terms of the universities that we go after. We do have the Ivy league schools and we also have more community based schools.
Speaker 2 00:18:13 Yeah. And we don't just limit our recruiting to universities. I think that's the other important part. There are really tremendous partnerships that we have at the community level that represent certain diversity groups and they help us. And that advocate can see alongside leadership of our employee resource groups and having referrals from leaders in those resource groups help connect us both to community and to talent that comes from those segments is, is another supply chain.
Speaker 1 00:18:43 Can, can you give us some examples of the community groups that you partner with just as a way of helping people to think, perhaps a little more out of the box or more openly about the types of partnerships they could have to help enhance diversity at their organizations?
Speaker 2 00:18:58 Well, let Kristen speak to that in detail, but one small example is a member of our board. I mean, I guess you have to be a bit creative about this and think about all avenues where, you know, talent again, is a shortage and we're all competing for it. So all avenues can help you, both your employee referrals, these resource groups, as an example, but we have a member of our board, who's Hispanic leader and a very prominent one. He happens to chair high tech, which is Hispanic organization of it leaders across California. And so we tap into him as an example for both that specialty area and it, but in particular, the Latinx community. So that's another supply in terms of talent and referrals. And we do know this, that talent begets talent. So that's somebody who's on our board. Who's clearly emblematic of our leadership model, somebody who understands our mission. And so therefore it's likely that the supply people that he's tapping into that we might not necessarily get the same access to already would have a bit of a screen, so to speak from him.
Speaker 1 00:20:02 That's a great concrete example. Thank you, Mary Kristen, you're nodding as well.
Speaker 3 00:20:07 It's been important for us to build community relationships like that for each of our underrepresented populations. So whether it is our Latinx population and we're looking to bring in Latinx leaders, as Mary's talking about into specific areas like technology or women. So starting earlier for women in girls who code women, who code types of things, bringing in technology and more into our technology organization, by example, or those in the community with disabilities or veteran status or LGBTQ plus, we have community relationships with each of these populations so that we can bring in diverse, underrepresented populations. And some are coming in with a lot of ex education and experience for our more leadership roles and others are more junior. And we're looking at opportunities that we also provide university partnership where individuals can get an education while they work with us as well. So <affirmative> so that we can help everyone to be as developed as they can be, get the learning that they need to continue to grow.
Speaker 1 00:21:13 Sometimes though, there can be skepticism among underrepresented groups about these types of programs, right. It can sometimes feel like, oh, okay, the company is rolling out another program. So they check the box and say that, yes, they included us in their final report at the <laugh> at the end of the quarter, how do you overcome that kind of skepticism when people are looking around and they're going, okay, so they have this program in place. But if I, I don't feel like I can progress as quickly as other people within the organizing. That's not, that's not gonna happen for me.
Speaker 3 00:21:50 I'd say it's twofold. One first to mitigate skepticism at the leadership level, it was really important for us to make sure that our established commitments are not just at an enterprise level or at a leadership level, but by business unit. And so leaders are on the hook for our diverse representation commitments, and they have goals aligned to that. So that it's a benefit and a win for them to take individuals in from our programs that are diverse. The other side to answer the skepticism that you may get from an individual employee is that we've offered a lot of opportunity for feedback loops, to be able to get feedback from individual, whether leaders or individual contributors about their experiences. We offer digital conversations and focus groups and talk sessions where individuals can share what their experience has been. And we can help to either improve our programs if we're lacking in somewhere. And we have learning to do and, or be able to socialize more effectively, the things that we are doing and the opportunities that are available for individuals so that they know what is available to them, that they may not have otherwise been aware of,
Speaker 2 00:23:02 You know, mentorship and sponsorship goes a long way to help with that skepticism as well. I think, you know, you gotta see people in the organization and leadership roles that are like you, and that helps with the skepticism, but you also have to have them engaged. There has to be a surround sound of a system wide response. And for us, we ask leaders to personally engage in mentoring others and demonstrating what we're serious about this. It, isn't a voluntary thing. It's an expectation of what leaders do here.
Speaker 1 00:23:34 That's a great point, Mary and I would imagine that mentorship is maybe a good sort of intermediate step too, right. For folks who want to be in a leadership position, but perhaps they're not quite ready for it and could use sort of that one on one connection.
Speaker 2 00:23:50 Yeah, exactly. Right. That and sponsorship as well. And we spend time on both. And, you know, to the extent that mentorship is a segue into this, I think that's great. The other side of it is it is equally about helping people just be best version of themselves. It may or may not lead to career progression, but it is in some measure about helping people just, you know, lean into being the best version of themselves and understand context. And the reverse mentoring that comes out of that is equally important. So it's not always a path, the career progression, but we hope that it build loyalty that helps really institutionalize being a learning organization.
Speaker 1 00:24:30 Can you give an example of how your mentorship program works for those who perhaps want to set up something similar within their organizations for mentorship and for sponsorship?
Speaker 3 00:24:40 Certainly. So we, I think first it's important to note that those are not the same. I <affirmative>, it's really important for folks to know that mentorship is a more intensive process where a mentor and a participant work together and really set some goals together about what they're looking to achieve with some help and some training in that and spend time consistently. So we ask folks to spend six to nine months to other and do at least monthly check-ins with one another mm-hmm <affirmative> and keep each other accountable to progress on those goals and commitments and a view of that development plan. I mentioned earlier, so that the mentor can see it from a different lens than perhaps that employees leader does mm-hmm <affirmative> um, and be able to spend time on, make progress on those development commitments. We typically see that based on position level and a few other specifics about a six to nine month mentorship program.
Speaker 3 00:25:38 And then we've trained all of our mentors to also serve as sponsors. So as Mary mentioned, inwe, I believe you mentioned as well, sponsorship is really important after or mentorship so that you have someone in your corner making sure that when there's an opportunity, they bring your name up and they bring you to the table to be considered for those types of opportunities and sponsor you. So it's a both, and for us, it's really important for us to put parameters around both and help with the learning most on how to do that. Well, for both programs,
Speaker 1 00:26:11 Sometimes within organizations, you can have all these programs in place, but there are occasionally managers who want to hang onto their best talent, hoard their best talents instead of have to give up those people, right. Because they're doing such a good job. How do you deal with that? And make sure you build a culture where people will share and help other people get the benefits of the talent within their units.
Speaker 2 00:26:37 Yeah, I'll, I'm sure Kristen can talk a little bit about our talent practices that help to facilitate that. But I'd say this much, at least to start culture is as much about permissible behavior as it is about anything mm-hmm <affirmative>. And to the extent that you don't have high quality conversations ongoing with your organization about those expectations of leaders, then I think it's likely that you could have some defaults of the things you're just where my asset is my asset, and it isn't thought of as an enterprise asset, or it could be, you know, seen as an okay thing to not really spend time helping others personally grow and develop here. We're quite intentional about that. And that level of dialogue is ongoing about at expectation as well as the process that helps to facilitate enterprise view of talent. And Kristen can talk about that
Speaker 3 00:27:31 To speak to that first, our talent reviews are key and critical so that our leaders are calibrating with one another about all of our strong talent. So knowing that we have talent pools in place. So, and we see our high potentials and we're having open dialogue with our leaders around those high potential talent. And what else can they be doing to grow and to progress. That's really important for us to open that door and make sure that we're having those meaningful conversations. The next is really making sure that we're holding our leaders accountable to that development of talent and those pools, and making certain that if you have high potential, that you are providing them a glide path and opportunity to grow and professionally develop within our organization. And I'd say the last piece to it is it is really actually helpful to change that philosophy and, and that culture with our, at leaders or any organization's leaders to stop thinking so much about this, person's a rockstar. So they should stay with me and start thinking about the institutional knowledge that that leader has. And if they're moved over to another area of the organization, how you can cross pollinate. And I think that's really critical for us to have broken down some silos, some barriers between organizations because now talent that used to sit in one organization can sit in another and, and share that knowledge that they have and build that network across functions. It's important.
Speaker 1 00:28:57 So these are great examples of the things that have worked for you at blue shield, but have you tried some approaches that failed or perhaps didn't work so well and based on those experiences, what advice would you have, uh, for others who are trying to create career pathways for their staff, their employees, their managers, or their executives?
Speaker 3 00:29:17 Certainly there's always key lessons learned, right? And I think it's so important for us to learn from those lessons as we continue to grow programs, to make sure that they're scalable and sustainable. I'd say a few of the lessons that we've had that we've learned one key, one in particular earlier on, we had some programs where I think that we spent a lot of time trying to solve too many different issues at the same time with pipeline and pathway. And so we went out and we hired a lot of folks to come into one of our programs and be able to get the development and the learning through that program. And then sometimes did not have a position where they could land ultimately after that program. And so they would take all that institutional knowledge and learning and then, and move on and not stay within our organization.
Speaker 3 00:30:03 I think what we learned, the lessons learned there are twofold. One, it's an investment that we make that we then need to, that we didn't get the best return on investment on, and two that we didn't provide some folks internally the opportunity to develop first and, and use our programs first. And so that comes back to some of that skepticism you were talking about before. Ah, I'd say what we learned from that is it's a, both, and we need to seek talent externally when we don't have the skills we need, or we have skill gaps or mm-hmm, <affirmative>, we need a pipeline of talent and we need to create pathway programs. I think that's where we started to really learn how intentional and deliberate we wanna be across the organization and understanding our programs and why there's a benefit to both.
Speaker 1 00:30:52 So Mary, for organizations that don't already have a proven program in place or programs in place, where do you start? What advice would you give them? Um,
Speaker 2 00:31:02 Yeah, I think it starts with philosophy. You know, what, what is it you're trying to achieve and why, what are your deeply held beliefs in terms of how you think about talent as an important part of your strategy overall as an organization? So I'd say articulating that, enunciating it, having leadership dialogue around that, to get engaged around where we spend our time as leaders and what our roles are as leaders in an organization on this agenda of talent. I think there's a critical connection to the business strategy. You know, doing programs in isolation, in human capital, in isolation of what the business strategy is, is at particularly fruitful and can lead to some of the things that Kristen described. Sometimes developing these strategies outside of that deep, you know, connection and tie can mean. You create a lot of frustration for people in the programs cuz they don't end up with jobs mm-hmm <affirmative>.
Speaker 2 00:31:59 And more importantly, from an evidence point of view, they don't contribute to business outcomes. So tying it very clearly to where your business strategy is headed. And I think there's a last point I'd make around cultural engagement by getting the voice of your people, making sure that you're hearing from folks in your own organization and wherever you're recruiting from around, what's important to them. So you're tying it to the business. You're being very philosophically clear. You're quite intentional about it. You're engaging leaders, but you're also engaging the voice of your own people and, and the talent that are gonna be affected by the program.
Speaker 1 00:32:32 That is really beautiful. Uh, very comprehensive Kristen, anything you want to add here,
Speaker 3 00:32:37 I'd say for any organization embarking on this, not only is that leadership alignment, key and critical, I'd also say that piloting it first is really important. If you oversell and under deliver on a program, it can actually have knock on effect for the longer term for folks to trust in the program. So starting small and really meeting the business where they are and solving an institutional problem is really important in a specific pilot area and showing some wins from that and failing fast whenever you have learning is really critical before making it, you know, enterprise wide for the organization.
Speaker 1 00:33:18 That is a great, and, and actually it makes me think of something you said earlier when you said that there were some things that did not work in the early days of trying these things. And you said you in the beginning, blue shield was trying to accomplish too many things at once with, with its pathway program. What were some of the goals you were trying to achieve all at once and before realized you probably needed a slim down version?
Speaker 3 00:33:43 Sure. I think for that example in particular, it was really solving for both building a pipeline of talent and for growing and developing and creating a pathway and, and, and right. So we, when you try to put too many things in and solve for it, you can have a tendency to not be able to measure its efficacy, cuz some things are working. Some things from that, uh, initial program worked really, really well and other things needed to evolve. So being able to isolate that outs a little difficult, if you roll it out too broadly, it also creates if you roll it out broadly quickly, this idea that you may have to rebrand or change it often like organizations like GE have been phenomenal at this because they'll build a program, pilot, it fail fast and then rebrand a program quickly. I think there's good learning for anyone who's starting out in this to meet the business where they are, are help solve for a need that is there and then scale the program as there's receptivity to that program and, and buy in and, and frankly, investment into that program too.
Speaker 1 00:34:52 All right, Mary, I wanna give you the last word here, but you can wrap it up for us. What are the long term benefits of these programs and initiatives intended to create internal mobility? What has blue shield seen as the benefits?
Speaker 2 00:35:07 Yeah, well, I mean mainly what you're getting is both the readiness and the supply and the mix of talent that you need at any given point in time to make sure that you can enable your business outcomes and tie that to your goals. So you hopefully get perform from a business point of view, but at the same time engagement and loyalty around this being a place that people pick and choose as a great place to work as compared to other places that they might choose to, especially in a world of scarcity, as it relates to talent,
Speaker 1 00:35:37 Mary and Kristen. So good to talk to you. You're both, you know, fountains of knowledge on this topic and I so appreciate your time. Mary O'Hara the executive vice president of people and engagement at blue shield of California and also Kristen wood, vice president and head of talent at blue shield. Thank you both for joining us.
Speaker 2 00:35:58 Thanks for having you.
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